Get Some BALLS

[ramsblood]

You had to delete my post, what a sacless wonder.

I challange you to prove that you exist. Post a 30 second clip of a so called missing episode and we will all bow down to your greatness (and selfishness).

Or you could delete this again, pussies. (Or should I say pussy as this is most likely the creation of one pathetic mind.)

[GrantB]

We do not have to prove anything to anyone.

If you do not like this; tough!

There is the door. Make sure it does not hit you on the ass on the way out.

[ramsblood]

You won't because you can't. That's exactly the response I expected. You create a board, fake a bunch of posts, link it to OG to get some people whipped up. How sad.

Even if I were to give you some kind of benefit of the doubt, you would have to provide some proof. Oh well, I suppose the whole idea of being a hoaxer is that you can't provide proof. Too bad.

[GrantB]

Why would we need to prove anything to you? Your opinion is of no consequence at all.

[ramsblood]

GrantB said:

Why would we need to prove anything to you? Your opinion is of no consequence at all.

So, basically the same answer.

Because if you do exist, then providing proof is just the kind of thing that gets people like you off. As I said in the deleted post, if you really are a bunch of selfish bastards hoarding many episodes, then showing the world a tiny taste should be just up your alley. You get all the wanking pleasure out of knowing that 1000's of fans know there are episodes out there that they will probably never see. All this while being able to stay competely annonymous. It's a win-win situation for you. All it takes is a 30 second clip from your precious collection, right? Then you are back to your hoarding ways. Plus, if this site is legit (giggle), it was outed on OG, so people know about you (has to laugh yet again).

Of course, you would actually have to have something first.

[GrantB]

You are missing the point entirely.

[ramsblood]

Am I really? Maybe you can explain why a bunch of people would want to keep it all to themselves.

You could get all the pleasure of whipping a bunch of geeky fans into a frenzy all the while still being able to hold onto your episodes, presumedly to be buried with them upon your death.

Many so called secret societies are actually well known, and you would never actually have to reveal yourselves.

[GrantB]

Is it not obvious?

[ramsblood]

The only thing that's obvious is that it's a prank.

Otherwise, what's not obvious is why people would want to hoard material such as this which isn't rare fine art but some old TV shows that some others might enjoy. Why would you want to keep it to yourselves? What is the point of that? It's kind of a silly question given that all the posters here are one person who holds no missing material.

But, miracle of miracles you do have something, why hoard it, beyond the notion of not wanting to give it back for free to the BBC which I could understand. Anyway, big claims require at least some proof. People already know you are here, why not have some real fun by proving Bignell wrong, that's what I really would like to see, if you want to know my motivation. I would like the smug asshole to eat shit. Sadly, this joke only proves he's right....

[Kev Munroe]

ramsblood said:

Am I really? Maybe you can explain why a bunch of people would want to keep it all to themselves.

It may well be the opinion of some people that film studios and TV companies were terribly negligent in not retaining, and in many cases actively destroying, their productions. So these people might feel it prudent to have a body that allows the preservation of such material that can be re-located, whilst at the same time teaching the originating companies a lesson by not allowing the material to be exploited commercially.

Further to which, while tedious little Doctor Who fans seem to get every surviving scrap of footage served up to them on a plate, there is a vast number of films and telefilms that lie in archives unwatched and unloved despite officially "existing". For example, a couple of years ago, seven or eight episodes of the 1960s comedy series "Scott On..." were located by an American film collector and returned to the BBC. It is almost certain that no-one will ever see them again. They will never be repeated, and the likelihood of a DVD release is infinitesmal. So what's the point of returning material? Why not keep it, enjoy it, and share it with like-minded friends? At least then the programs are being watched and appreciated, which is a far more fitting tribute to their creators than if the fruit of their creative efforts sits gathering dust in a vault.

Even if you think this website, this forum, these people are ficticious (and quite frankly who cares what you think anyway - in one sense it is far better to be thought to be ficticious), the fact is that there are people out there with missing material, who may have even tried to return it to the producing company to be met with rejection. So they share it amongst their friends, it spreads slowly outwards - but you have no idea it's going on. Probably because like most Doctor Who fans, your mind is so blinkered that you cannot see past 696 episodes of terrible kids television to the many many thousands of hours of film, television and radio material that are possibly more deserving of preservation. Some of that material does exist in private hands. And that is where, for the forseeable future, it will be staying.

Now run away back to your Doctor Who forum and boast to them how brave you were to say "Balls' to the Pandora Club. Lo, and they shall worship you like a hero, they shall.

[ramsblood]

I agree that what happened to old TV is a sad shame, and it's too bad that more old TV isn't exploited.

But why don't you prove it? What have you to lose? It still doesn't make sense to hoard it, and that ridiculous 'fee' of many thousands of pound beggars belief.

All that posting activity in two days and then nothing. The only conclusion is that you have nothing, never had anything, and just made this up and linked it to OG to have a laugh. You won't even indulge one 30 second clip because you have nothing.

Tell you what, it doesn't even have to be Who. Just post anything, even the most uninteresting show that is officiall missing and we will all rejoice that at least some other episodes are safe in the hands of people who will never let them see the light of day.

[Kev Munroe]

Posting was called to a halt here once we realised that it wasn't as secure as had been thought. The fact that it was discovered and linked to your Doctor Who forum within 24 hours proves that this was not the quiet little haven for discussion we thought it would be. Rest assured this was not a hoax aimed at Outpost Gallifrey, and I understand the proprietor of that website has been told as much.

I for one am happy to post an example of missing material if that would make you happy. I'm at work at the moment, but later tonight I will try and put something which I believe is not contained in the BBC archives on the web for a small period.

[ramsblood]

Thank you. One thing that will make me happy is that there is more stuff out there, and not just Who. Hey, I want to believe, just haven't been given any reason other than to scoff at the idea that a group of people would willingly keep stuff away from others who would also like to see it.

If you don't want the BBC to benefit, sell copies on the black market, or put it on alt.binaries.drwho. It would make thousands extatic, piss the BBC off, and you would be legends. Though, if you did spend loads of cash (which is baffling), then it is your stuff to hide under your bed if you please.

Anyway, I look forward to proof and to thumbing my nose at Bignell.

[Kev Munroe]

Unfortunately, rare film collecting and preservation is a very expensive business - quite aside from the money you might fork out getting hold of a print or neg in the first place. Climate controlled storage is not cheap; especially if you're dealing with the early (explosive) nitrate film - which also costs a bomb to transfer to safety stock.
Even then, there are unexpected costs - check out www.vitaphoneproject.com/ for the kind of money it takes just to synch up a film to its Vitaphone discs. And that's per reel - a feature could cost ten times that amount.

Suppose for a moment that I was feeling benevolent and decided to give a copy of Convention City (1933) to Warner Bros - the company that purposely destroyed all their prints and negs of the film many years ago. Would I be reimbursed for the costs of locating and securing the film, shipping, transferring a nitrate print to a safety stock neg, etc etc etc? No. And who would profit from the long-hoped-for DVD release of that film? Not I.

The idea of profiteering by illegally selling this material (or disseminating it over the internet) is not one I would comfortably entertain. It has been suggested that someone in possession of a rare Doctor Who print could licence the show from the BBC for a legit DVD release, but I honestly can't see the BBC saying yes to that.

[Kev Munroe]

OK, after a little bit of frustrating web hosting silliness, we have something.

Only one episode of series two of The Frost Report exists in the BBC Archives - Show 2 (Women), which was returned on 16mm a few years back. (Series One, on the other hand, is only missing one episode out of thirteen.)

Here is the audio of the opening couple of minutes from Show 10 - Crime - first broadcast on 8 June 1967 and no longer resident in the BBC archives:

4ramsblood.bravehost.com/frostcrime.txt

You will need to download the file and rename it to have an mp3 extension. These free hosting sites don't seem to allow mp3s.

I will delete the file in 12 hours time. It is now 1pm GMT.